---
title: "Q&A: Ex-Amazon 'Master of Disaster' Jesse Robbins on the Power of 'Relentless Optimism' in Startups"
description: "GeekWire ran a long Q&A while I was running Opscode and pulled out the operating principle I kept using inside Amazon: when people say no, find a way to make them say yes."
doc_version: "1.0"
last_updated: 2012-10-27
slug: master-of-disaster-relentless-optimism-geekwire
outlet: GeekWire
author: Jeff Dickey
date: 2012-10-27
url: https://www.geekwire.com/2012/qa-examazon-master-disaster-jesse-robbins/
type: Article
excerpt: "GeekWire ran a long Q&A while I was running Opscode and pulled out the operating principle I kept using inside Amazon: when people say no, find a way to make them say yes."
quote: When you're trying to change the way big organizations work, a lot of people say no a lot. Rather than try to fight them, you've got to find a way to make them say yes. Being a force for awesome in the world is finding ways to say yes.
quoteAuthor: Jesse Robbins
tags:
  - Chef
  - Startups
  - Culture
  - Amazon
  - Master of Disaster
  - Firefighting
---

> "When you're trying to change the way big organizations work, a lot of people say no a lot. Rather than try to fight them, you've got to find a way to make them say yes. Being a force for awesome in the world is finding ways to say yes."
> — Jesse Robbins

Jeff Dickey caught me in 2012, mid-stride at Opscode. I had been a technology builder since high school, stepped away from tech to train as a firefighter and EMT, and walked back in through the door at Amazon on August 20, 2001. The Q&A traces that path and lands on the operating principle I had been using inside Amazon and was now using to build Opscode.

On 9/11, I woke up in a hospital after emergency surgery and watched the day unfold on a television. That was when I understood that the operational skills I had been training in the fire service translated directly to a technology organization that thousands of people depended on. As I told Jeff: "I decided I'm going to figure out a way to mix these two worlds together." That decision became Master of Disaster, GameDay, and eventually Chef.

On driving change in large organizations: "When you're trying to change the way big organizations work, a lot of people say no a lot. Rather than try to fight them, you've got to find a way to make them say yes. Being a force for awesome in the world is finding ways to say yes."

On startup life, my advice in 2012 was the same advice I give founders now: "If you're struggling, recognize it's going to be this way forever." The work does not get easier; you get better at it.

## Also Mentioned

- Jesse Robbins (person)
- Chef (company)

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